We decided to keep the interviews intact this show, so it runs a little longer than two hours and weighs in at a hefty 30MB, so stream’em if you got’em. This features FULL interviews with the Master of Animation Don Bluth where we talk about everything from Dragon’s Lair to the mysterious lost game Sea Beast to Don’s philosophy on movies and video games (an incredible interview). Also, Garry Kitchen, notably famous from Keystone Capers, Designer’s Pencil, and Garry Kitchen’s GameMaker speaks out on the video game industry past and present – a passionate guy about his craft, and a great interview. Plus, our new Bits & Bytes segment covers some great new stuff from around the web (including Microsoft hiring hackers), plus a RetroGaming Radio EXCLUSIVE – we give you a sneak peek at the new pop song produced just for Dragon’s Lair 3D that you might be hearing on the radio or seeing on MTV called HE’S MY GUY, and we bet you can’t get it out of your head! All this and so much more – enjoy the longest show to date!
Runtime: 02:14:36
Rant: Letters to The Editor Redux
Review: None
Flashback: Various
This is the transcript from the original, uncut interview with Don Bluth — which is really close to what is here in this show. This is AI generated and not 100% accurate.
Don Bluth
better chance at it anyway.
Shane R. Monroe
Okay. Anything in particular, before we start that you specifically want me to talk about that you mean, I’m going to cover most of the drawings or 3d stuff, but
Don Bluth
now let’s see where it takes us. We’ll start going somewhere with it.
Shane R. Monroe
I’ll do I’ll do a free intro to all this later. Dragon’s Lair 3d is the new game coming out that you’re affiliated with. You guys aren’t actually making the game per se, but you’re a consultant team on it. You also did the animation work for the 2d animation for it. The now tell us a little bit about that. This is some new animation that you folks have put together specifically for this event.
Don Bluth
Yeah, the hard part about going in and making a sequel to anything at all is to capture the spirit of the first one without sounding old and tired. And I think when Rick Dyer came to us and said, Let’s make a Dragon’s Lair, 3d game. My question was, what is it about that first game that really was attractive, and no one really knows for sure what that is. But I said, you know, the death nodes. I think the death nodes are fun, because they’re just corny, and strange and weird enough that weird is kind of fun to watch. And he said, Well, here’s the plus side. To me, I’m making a new game, it says, because the technology is so much better. 18 years later, we’ve got technology will allow us to do things we couldn’t do before. So the game probably could have even a longer life. And I said longer than it has been. He said, Yeah, he says, and we could create more rooms that have been there before and more fun. And I said, Could you make it look like it was really animated, like 2d animated? And he said, Yes, they have I have a software program out there called toon shader. And he says, and we can make jerk, like, like you’re animating it. And he said, But furthermore, we can, it isn’t just a strip of film that you’re watching like the first game. And if you make the right decision, you get to watch the next little bit of film, and if you make the right decision the next bit. And so this is one where you will have control over Dericks movements, you control which way moves and everything by you know how you’re directing him. So it becomes a little more programmed learning in a way. So you’re involved in it? Well, that’s really interesting, he says, but the more interesting part is that Dragon’s Lair, the first game, has been on the shelves for 18 years and should not have done that. Because games don’t stay on shelves for that long, and still command in space. And it said, so there must be something out there it’s connecting to. So with all of that, in all of that debate, we finally said, Okay, let’s let’s move forward with it and see what happens. We don’t have a whole lot to lose here. But we we definitely need to try and make it look as much like the game as we can, and keep the spirit of that game. So and I think dragon stone, which is the company with Rick Dyer, that have produced this have done a really good job. Because we got in involved in the story part of it, you know, what the characters and whatever new characters are going to be in, in the beginning, we went off making a thing that had all brand new characters. And I remember the publisher, we were signed with at the time said, Whoa, hang on, hang on, where are the characters that we all know and love, you know, the giddy goons and all the rest of them the lizard king. So we went back and thought it through again, and put a lot of the old characters in, a lot of the old rooms are in there. And even the rooms that you go through in the castle, rather than make them look totally just CGI. We mapped in the backgrounds and painted them all over the wall so that it looks kind of the same. But there are 300 and something rooms in 60. I think rooms that you have to get through and it’ll take a player, if he’s really, really good. It’ll take him a long time even to get through them. And also, you have to pick up little treasures along the way. And this time, Daphne is helping you get through the game. She’s talking to you all the time. And so it has a lot of things that are pluses that are better than before. The one thing that I that I myself miss is the death notes. And they’re not those aren’t there at all. No, that’s too bad. And but the one that that is kind of funds, we thought to help the game kind of segue into this new format is we put some animated 2d animation on the front of it and on the end of it so that you start with a 2d animation segue into you know, a 3d world and then go through on that adventure. It’s been very successful in all the test markets that we’ve done it you know, people have liked it. And the kids liked the gameplay. And that was the part that had my fingers crossed.
Shane R. Monroe
Absolutely. Kids are fickle. Yeah, yeah,
Don Bluth
they will. If they don’t like it, they will like it. What
Shane R. Monroe
what sort of concerns have you addressed during the during the entire creation of the game to appease the original lovers? I mean, the original people that played the game obviously may or may not have transitioned into a 3d gaming environment some of us are still stuck back playing the old 2d game. No,
Don Bluth
that’s good question. They they probably a lot of the kids, the original ones who played the game, have grown up, gotten married, have kids of their own 18 years later, you know, they’re probably many of them, same place they were back then. Sure. Some maybe have jumped over into the 3d world, but I don’t know how many.
Shane R. Monroe
Yeah, a lot of people my age seem to be still reliving the past. I mean, I still play Pac Man. There’s,
Don Bluth
there’s an old saying that you know, the music that you liked when you were in high school and the things that you did in high school, you seem to cling to you know, that’s really the moment that you’re hanging on to? I don’t know, I really don’t know, I know that the name itself Dragon’s Lair will will probably pique someone’s interest. And if their children, the children of the original players, like the gameplay, it could be something that they enjoy together. Because I know moms and dads can entirely ignore that their children are in a cyber world truth. So you can’t do that any more than I who would like to ignore the cyber world? Cannot anymore, you know, you have to get in it.
Shane R. Monroe
Now this game is actually breaking new grounds, again, just like the original Dragon’s Lair back in 83. Right. Give us some ideas, what sort of things set this aside from any other game that’s out right now?
Don Bluth
Well, the way I think it’s really the obvious way is on the Xbox. Xbox platform, is really high definition. And it is the it is the first in High Definition games. Really high definition. And I don’t know, I don’t know all the figures on that myself, because I’m extremely uninformed on that. But I have seen on the Xbox platform, I’ve seen the game on this big white screen with with digital information on it. And it’s clearer than any movie that I’ve ever made. Really, yeah, it’s just really and I look at it, I go, Wow, just wow, it dropped made my jaw drop. And I hadn’t seen that in any of the games. When I go to the game shows and E three, I look at everything around me. And it all seems to blend into one kind of big one. Sure, you know, and they all look alike. And they’re all about beating each other to pieces. And they’re all very, very noisy. And when they all get under the same roof, and they all play at 15 decibels loud as they can. It’s to go crazy. So I walk around and I look at his with my earplugs in and look at as long as I can. But when I saw the Dragon’s Lair, high definition, which is a first, I definitely knocked my socks off. I thought it was really kind of cool. And that thing we’ve done with this jerk thing, Derek, Derek is more like a story. And that story of Dirk and Daphne and how they work together to get themselves out of problems and situations. And everything still is in the game, which was really a big part of making the first Dragon’s Lair game. What are these two characters to each other? And the definition of character and personality is really what entertainment is all about. For years and years and years, I suppose the movie industry and the arcade industry have been you know, throwing rocks at each other and very highly competitive. Because one goes up the other goes down, like two little buckets and, uh, well, right. But more and more, I think what is happening is the gaming industry is entering the entertainment industry. And perhaps it’s the other way around, I know the movies, each one of them making their own games, too. So sure, the two seem to be walking hand in hand. But to me, I have a special definition of that. And that is to make something interesting and identifiable. You have to define character. So it isn’t just good enough to say, here’s a big bad guy who has lots of armor and a big sword. And here’s another bad guy, this big sword. And it’s to see they’re going to fight it out in an arena to see who wins because why should I care? Right wins? Why should I care? I know when we were making a movie called Titan a when I was boarding that I would enter all kinds of air all kinds of spacecraft that would come zooming into the picture and they would get shot, you know, and they would go down. And so I remember one time one of the company executives, he looked at me and he says, Those 15 aircraft that you just shut down and they died. He says Who are those people? And I said, Oh, they’re just part of the enemy says, but I don’t know them, do I? And I said no. He says, and I don’t really care if they got killed to live. Right says yeah, you don’t do you? He says, so why are you taking my time talking about things I don’t care about? Interesting. So we wound up pulling all of that kind of thing out of the movie and say if we’re going to shoot anybody down, it’s going to be somebody we’ve already meant. We know something about, we like them, you know, so that we can actually generate an emotion out of it. If you don’t know anybody that’s up there fighting. You’re not invested in it.
Shane R. Monroe
It’s interesting. There wouldn’t because I mean, that’s that’s pretty much common fodder for any, any film. If you watch a war movie, hundreds of planes are shot down. You don’t really know any of them. It’s more of a this is a tragedy. And it’s something to key you emotionally and it’s a tragedy. I mean, you know that there are people on there You don’t necessarily relate to him. But you know, somebody that guys probably had a family or that guy,
Don Bluth
but you don’t stop and think about it, there’s no time. And you don’t you don’t have that time. And probably what it is, too is, of course wars, the tapestry against which you play a drama. And it depends on what you focus on. If it’s, you’re focusing on the tapestry, you won’t feel a thing, right. But if you will pull to the other increment, which is the drama of it, and the people and why you care about them, and why you like them. I mean, why do I like Luke Skywalker? Why do I like him? I mean, I can look at him. And of course, that’s something but I but I know a little bit about him, I know that his parents were killed. And I know that, you know, he’s struggling to get ahead. And I know that he feels like kind of like an underdog. There’s things about him that I say, Oh, I know that. Well, I feel that she incidents that starts happening. Now I care what happens to him. So that seems to be the key. And if the gaming industry starts putting more of that kind of thing, focus on character into their games, I think the response from the players will be more intense.
Shane R. Monroe
Do you think they can do that? Does Dragonslayer 3d do that?
Don Bluth
Not as much as I would like it to, I would like to do and I even thinking years ago, and we’re making the first game, the little light bulb that went on over my head was you know, with even this, first we had, which was the laser disc, which is what we this fancy term called random access, you know, where you can access any moment on the disk, it took a couple of seconds to get to there. But if that’s possible, and you can go to any situation, in just, you know, a nanosecond, that means that you could create entertainment, dramatic stories that depict evil and good. And you could have multiple endings. And you could be part of selecting where which engine you are going to not even knowing but it’s an adventure in which you’re part of deciding how the drama unfolds. And movies haven’t tapped into this yet. Because unfortunately, with the movie industry, they all chase the audience, instead of being innovative and creative. And you know, and striking out to find something new.
Shane R. Monroe
I think that’s I think that’s really apparent in the video game industry. That’s one of the things we talked about a lot on the show is the the meat to gaming in the movies to follow the same path, it’s
Don Bluth
maybe it’s human nature, maybe that’s the way business works, because nobody’s wants to take a risk. If they risk and it misses, they get fired, they lose their cars, they lose their everything, you know, and the college funds for their kids. And so everyone’s a little bit afraid to roll those dice too much. And I know we have a funny thing that we talked about in the movie industry. And that is nobody in the movie studio will make a decision all by himself has to
Shane R. Monroe
be done in groups. So that everybody eggs are everybody good? That’s right. So
Don Bluth
that you know, when the shrapnel flies, you know, you’re not the only one who’s gonna catch it. But that isn’t, that’s a tough way to make something because it defies it flies in the face of true creativity, creativity involves risk, and you have to risk it and you may lose. But if somebody somewhere doesn’t stand up and take a risk, then the new and the fresh and exciting does not happen. Surely Star Wars was a risk when it came out? Absolutely. Everyone in the whole of Hollywood said no space movies don’t work, right. But there was a guy who believed in enough George Lucas, who just kept pushing and pushing and pushing, tell him made that a reality.
Shane R. Monroe
How did how does it because it was It wasn’t always like, you know, in the old days of video games, the marketing department, everybody was shut out. And the developer sat down and said, I’m gonna make a game. And when it’s done, I’ll give it to you. Now when it’s Christmas time, I’ll give it to you when it’s done. And I like it, and everybody I know likes it, then I’ll turn it over to marketing. You guys can sell it for us. And we get we hear that a lot. When we do interviews with classic game developers, they sit in the old days, we sat down, we did it. Now it’s all development by committee that actually developers themselves have written into me saying, you know, I’m in the middle of this project. And somebody walked over to me and said, You’ve got two weeks to add this feature, not whether or not it can be done in two weeks, or whether it can be done right in two weeks or whether it would break the rest of the game or the integrity of the game. You got two weeks make it happen or time to resume does that happen in your field?
Don Bluth
That happens at every field I think that is the dictation of the economic world. And I know years ago the very statement you just made Shane was I’ll make the game and when I’ve got it made then you can mark it it was said that very thing to people in his studio. He’ll say I’ll make the movies and when I’ve made the movie you can mark it as that was very same thing. Well, I think what happens is when when a movie shifts from that the production ships over to the marketers and the marketing is driven by the marketing. Then they say I want these characters in there because I can merchandise them. Yeah, want this character in there because that will get me you know something with Sears Roebuck. I want this character in there because that satisfies the music community. You know, and everything is about how much money can I get out of this right Unfortunately, you know, that’s kind of where our economy is right now. And it seems that it seems to be accelerating in that direction, to where the only thing that is important is the profit. It’s a sad situation to get into. And I don’t know where that slows down, where people back up and say, Hang on, hang on, I think we threw the baby out with the bath. And maybe we better back up and say, let’s first create, and see if we can make something nice. And if we can, but that takes money to do that someone has to put up enough money to say, Okay, go make this, make it the best you can. And when you’ve got it made, we’ll figure out how we’re going to market that.
Shane R. Monroe
There has been in in the gaming industry, at least a couple of instances where a company has basically taken four years like with what’s happening with Dragon’s Lair 3d, four year development cycles, a very long time for a video game. And I’m surprised actually that it was basically allowed to be taken that long, because really, every developer that I speak with is basically there on an 18 month schedule, at best, if not shorter, because it’s Christmas time. You mean everything revolves around a holiday, where everything revolves around basically a financial pivot point. But there are some companies that have gotten away with it in the past. And now they basically have carte blanche to do it again, like Blizzard Entertainment, for example, with Warcraft three, I mean, they’ve had they’ve had that in production for four years, and they still haven’t shipped or they just shipped, I’m sorry, this last year. But in most cases, there really isn’t. I mean, there, isn’t that, that leeway? Well, basically your schedule, not only to meet the demands of what they want from you, but also in a timeframe.
Don Bluth
You know, movies or suffer under the same umbrella. Someone will say we have this money to make this movie, it has to be out by this Titan A is a good example. It has to be up by this date, when Bill mechanic gave us that movie, and he said, Okay, I know you didn’t develop the movie, I don’t have anything make it right now, I don’t have another concept for you to work on right now. This is the movie, but the only reason I’m going to give it to you is because I needed in 18 months, right? So he save yourself kind of make this movie in 18 months. And then after you get into movie and start making it, there’s all these audience reaction interviews, we were making the movie for the teenage audience, preferably boys, who would like to space genre and all the hardware that goes with it. But then when they would bring in the the, the mothers and their kids to watch this movie, to get an idea of where the movie is going, they would bring in kids, great school kids wasn’t the teenagers at all. And then they would fill out little information sheets, you know, questionnaires, and then these questionnaires, they would ask him certain things about the movie, and then they would respond to it. So gradually, depending on or responding to those interviews, the movie changed from a teenage movie over into a children’s movie. Interesting. So all the time you’re making it, you know, people are being guided, because they don’t trust their own instincts. They’re being guided by what they’re being told. Sure. And not only that, those reaction interviews should probably have happened somewhere in the Midwest and not in California. Because the the people in California, the moms, the kids and everything, they’re just waiting for those interviews, because they know that anything they say is going to cause a reaction. So they go they’re planning to, you know, stir it. Sure. And they do and so, you know, in a way it’s part of the same problem is, is that there’s nobody with vision that’s actually leading that, that huge investment called the movie. And that same thing has happened into the gaming industry. Where’s the visionary that’s leading that somewhere? That you can say, Wow, this is a cool idea.
Shane R. Monroe
Yeah, that’s it seems to be a problem. And how does that affect you as a as a movie maker? I mean, you I mean, you’ve set pretty much under every hat that there is for creating, producing, directing, animating everything to do with the film. Is that is that I mean, like tiny, for example. Were you were you happy at the end?
Don Bluth
No. Tiny he was a, it was a hybrid. It was the thing. I don’t know very much about science fiction anyway. And I’m not what you call a huge fan of science fiction I’ve gotten to be, but then when we started that I was not. And so you go in there and you say, Okay, I remember all the science fiction movies that I’ve seen, and I have to be sure that I don’t copy them. So I put immediately a guy right beside me. And I said, every time it looks like that, I’ve said a cliche, I want you to know, tapped me on the shoulder said you can’t do that. So then I began to explore things that I thought were exciting to me. And in the boarding and in the character designs and in the situations with the characters. So even in the writing, you’re when you get the script, you have to look at the script and say, Is this scene interesting? Does it really have tension in it? You know, am I interested in what the people are saying to each other and what they’re all about? And in many cases I wasn’t wasn’t the case and it’s kind of a cliche to say There’s a young man who has the key to saving the world. If you go into any bookstore or any video shop, you know, there are shelves of that premise. This is a young man who has the power to save the world. Can he do it? Right? So we’re not in any new territory here is just how we unfold. It may be different. Whatever it is, I thought some of the things were interesting. The one that attracted me the most was, by the end of the movie, we had to prove that this TITAN machine could actually create a planet. And we really didn’t spend enough time showing that because we’d run out of time and money. Sure. So we had to do it. And the movie was getting very expensive in the marketing 2030 Fox is beginning to ask themselves, can we get our money back? So you know, that was a big consideration right there. You go into best you can. Usually a movie or a game is such a big project that no one person can do it alone. Right. So the one person that’s kind of spearheaded, it has to have some kind of power enough to at least say this is where we’re going. Come with me follow me, man from going there.
Shane R. Monroe
Do the people end up though in that position regularly that honestly have the clue?
Don Bluth
No, no, I think I think there’s a few. There’s a few that I’ve known a few people like Disney owned the store, here control the money. And he had a brother, Roy Disney who was working with him, okay, because of that. The two of them, even though they may have had their differences of opinion, the two of them work together. And owning the store allows you to make the decisions. Sure. All right. Steven Spielberg is another case, I think we’re somebody has enough clout and enough money to where he can make decisions. And usually, that allows some bravery to happen. The person will say, I really want to see this. And if you really want it bad enough, you’ll go for it. But if not, let’s say that you’re an employee situation, and you work for a studio. And who’s going to tell you, because everyone who works yesterday, who was an was an employee is going to say I don’t want to lose my job. So I start with that premise. And they say, so someone’s going to have to tell me what to do. Because if I just do my own thing, what could happen is I could get in terrible trouble, and I’ll be fine. So that means 400. Employees maybe will sit around in their chairs waiting for an order. And there’s nothing great about that. No. So you get in a situation where you say this is not a good situation. And so then you have a studio head, who is going to say well, I’d like to see this. So everybody tries to draw what they’re thinking might be seen, but they’re not sure. And they put it all out on the table. And he’ll he’ll sort of parade by it and say, Well, I like this, I like this. I like a piece of this. And I like this over here, but I don’t know which one I write. I’ll know when I see it. Keep going. I’ll know when I see it. And that’s exactly what happens. I don’t know, I would suspect that same thing happens in the gaming industry, whoever is up top and is managing somehow is going to call the shots. And hopefully that person has the vision of where they’re going.
Shane R. Monroe
One of the things we talked to like the godfather of platform gaming David Crane, I wouldn’t expect you to know who he is. But basically you know, he pioneered the plot the running and jumping game. And he developed a game called pitfall which was ever game basically clones now anything that runs jumps, and he was he he started the company Activision, which I’m sure you’re familiar with. And of course, over creative differences and whatnot. He wanted to do his thing they left him in his team left, Activision. But he had to leave the property behind a pitfall. I don’t know if he had to, or if he chose to. But basically, the property was left behind what they did with that property. wasn’t good. They took the property and basically by by using the name of pitfall Pitfall, mind, adventures, Pitfall, this pitfall that they apply that, you know, his seal was on it, and they certainly sold the game as a David Crane Game, basically. And for those of us who, you know, basically trusted David Crane, you know, when you see something with his name on it, you know, as quality, like if I saw something with Don blues name on it, I knew, I know that there’s a level of quality and a seal of approval that comes with it. The company basically ran the type the property into the ground. And we talked to David about and we said, well, doesn’t that bother you? I mean, doesn’t that just love the music? No, I don’t care what they do with it. It’s like well, but doesn’t Don’t you feel that reflects on you. And I was thinking to myself, you know, American tale you know, they made see Land Before Time, especially Land Before Time, was a brilliant movie, but they got like 10 sequels out now. I know. You’re not a part of it. And you I mean, it’s blatantly obvious if you watch any of them that you know, it doesn’t hold the caliber. It’s more like a Saturday morning cartoon than it is a feature film. How How does that affect how does that Here’s about that.
Don Bluth
It’s a very bad thing I like I did not enjoy the sequel American tale. And then somebody not too long ago made a sequel to secret Nim, which, which to me was just, you know, I didn’t enjoy that at all. Thank you bear barely had a hard time watching it. But I know that it does happen. It has happened because the products are market driven. How can we make more money out of it, and also, the people with the wallets are not the children, people the walls are the parents, as long as the parents say, Well, my children like lamb before time, that’s an icon. They’ll like Land Before Time to so they just buy it as a babysitter. So it has nothing to do with educating their brain or giving them high quality food or intellectual food or anything is just keep them babysat. We made a we started making a movie years ago, this is when we were in Ireland. And it was a movie about a penguin. It was called the Pebble and the Penguin. And the Pebble and the Penguin was a really lovely story. Because the Adelie penguin has a custom of they go find a little a little stone, a pebble, and they present it to the mate to the girl. And if she accepts the pebble, they mate for life, right? And is a true customer that they have. I thought, Wow, what a neat thing to build story on. So we had a pretty good script going and everything. But we ran into financial difficulties about that time, our studio was rocked everywhere while we were making this picture. Eventually what happened is Gary and I left there and came back home to America and went to work for Fox. The studio actually went down, but they finished making penguin. And I could not keep my name off of it. They used my name to sell story that I had no connection with at all. That’s horrible. And they rearranged everything. They changed the story they and they added animation. That was awful. But there was nothing you can do about it. Because to answer your question, it’s awful, oftentimes our legal battle that the lawyers fight, and it has to do with banks and corporations and you know, and how to protect people’s money. So there’s nothing you can do about it, you have to be very alert and very careful. Because when you launch into any project, unless all of the hatches are battened down, you know, and the sales in a storm or are tied up somehow, you can upset the ship and I have learned that over the years. But I have one picture that’s got my name all over it. And I just really don’t like that picture.
Shane R. Monroe
And I had to go back and see how bad they trashed and actually seen that way.
Don Bluth
Yeah. And some of those land before times, you know, the characters, I can see them there. But there’s they’re not alive. There’s no light in them. So there’s something missing.
Shane R. Monroe
Yeah. And it seems to be more and more commonplace with that. Basically, writing a movie around the merchandising situation, market driven, market driven is just, it seems like every industry, especially every media industry, you’d be at video games or movies, film, I mean, everything seems to be going that way. How can you can your film company stay out of that? I mean, it’s a sign
Don Bluth
of the times in a way. Because our culture, I think America has changed a lot, you know, from the turn of the century. And it was it was a time of hope and enthusiasm, optimism. And things were things were growing so fast America was the world in which you know, anything was possible any dreamy dreams, you know, you could rise from poverty to riches, you can do anything in America. And that that was a great, that was a great period, I think in our culture. As I get into today, and you know, you watch the hands of the clock, go forward and look at 2001, I have to say that a lot of what I see is not hope and optimism, but cynicism, and sarcasm. I don’t know how that I don’t know how that overtook us, or how we got there. I don’t know all of the cultural impacts, you know, that concept happened, but I know that it’s lethal. And I know that until you somehow in your own life, and it has to start with the individual. You slow down and you stop smell the flowers. And you stop and understand that it isn’t all about money. It’s about the people you meet. And it’s about how you relate to those people and how you get to know them and know that each person is a treasure, you know that they’re important. And it isn’t people are there for you to use to amass your wealth. That isn’t really why that’s there. And if you interpret life as such, someone who is smarter and stronger than you is going to use you to amass their wealth. Right? And so you’ll get what’s coming to you. And if everybody keeps doing this, pretty soon, the whole movement, the whole energy is moving in that direction. And I I don’t see a good ending to that. But if you can, if you can just on an individual level come to care about the people that you talk to the people you relate to the things you do for other people. It changes the way you look at the world. So I think that’s, that’s part of it. I don’t know what’s going to turn that around. I think stories are strong and stories can inspire. And maybe inspire is a good thing that we all could use. Certainly I think the 911 was a moment where everybody got a board up the side of the head. Yeah. And it woke everybody up. And it was a high, very costly thing to happen. But at the same time, it did cause them to them, I say us, it did cause us to stop, pause in our tracks, and reconsider. Do you really, really feel bad for the 5000 people that died? To really feel bad for all of the aftermath? And all the families and all the people that you know, that were affected by that? How horrible that really was? And how much sorrow and pain that is causing? Do you really feel bad quarters that just a fashionable face to put on
Shane R. Monroe
Jet? Don’t even get me started on that. That’s something that just drives me crazy. The the the bandwagon are American. Unfortunately, that’s a whole different topic.
Don Bluth
But it’s fashion.
Shane R. Monroe
It is it exactly right. Everybody else has a flag sticker on the back of their car. So therefore, I must have a flag. These are the same people that would never, you know, clutter their heart with a bumper sticker. Now, heaven forbid, we have a flag.
Don Bluth
But you know, all of that, though, I think there are some who generally open their eyes.
Shane R. Monroe
I think so too. I just don’t think there’s a majority vote on that.
Don Bluth
And it probably you’ll never get a majority. That’s all walking in the correct path. You know, it’ll always be a minority that’s trying to hold the majority up. And if it weren’t for probably the minority group that’s really trying hard. You could just simply pull the chain, let it all go and hope. But no, you have to you have to believe that there’s a purpose in life and that you’re here to accomplish something. And it isn’t to make money. It can’t be that.
Shane R. Monroe
But you got it. You got it. You can’t leave with I mean, I mean, that sounds cliche. The can’t take it with you bit. But but you really can’t. I mean, you’ve got to answer at least to yourself, in the end. I mean, I don’t, I’ve never been through the death process myself. But I imagine it’s pretty, pretty final. And at that last moment, there’s there’s got to be that that reckoning moment where you got to say, did I do what I was supposed to do, if I fulfilled what I was supposed to fulfill? I think that’s kind of what you’re talking. That’s what I’m talking about, you know, and what do you I mean, you can’t sum that up on a bank account. You know, you can’t, you can’t No, you could say, I’ve touched millions of people, The Secret of NIMH, you know, so, you know, some people that is the definitive, classic, traditional 2d animation. That’s, that’s all that’s left. That’s the last bastion of it. But you know, that there are people out there that feel that way. Does it did you feel,
Don Bluth
that’s, that’s a good thing, that’s a good thing. But I suppose you’re given however many years to live here on Earth, given meaning somebody has given it and you, you fulfill those years in a certain way, and you fulfill them with either integrity, or you know, with compassion, and with caring kindness with other people, or you don’t, everything is about you. And if you get on to the Me, me me stuff, you know, and everything is about you, and what can I get out of this? You definitely in on a cul de sac. Because you’re never going to feel any enrichment, you’re never going to feel any joy out of that you’re never going to feel anything except that you’re out robbing the world. So it’s not going to bring you anything. So I kind of in my own life, what I try to do is figure out, okay, what can I invest in my time is the investment, not the money, what can I invest in my time, that’s going to pay the biggest dividend in the end, and the dividends that I want is not money, the dividends I want is the satisfaction or the joy, or the happiness that comes from having, you know, contributed or given to something, I always love the expression an actor has given appropriate give a performance, they don’t take one.
Shane R. Monroe
That’s, that’s interesting. That’s an interesting way of looking at
Don Bluth
it, they give one. And not all actors know that because some of them take one. And you can always tell when they’re taking one. And they’re amusing themselves on screen or stage. And it’s all about them. And they’re showing off. And it’s like, look what I can do or not great. Or you can tell when someone has gotten into the part and they are portraying apart because they know that by so doing, they’re causing you to feel something. And that’s giving something
Shane R. Monroe
that’s something that you have to do on on all of your projects being that I mean, you make the actors basically, I mean, there’s there’s the voice element, of course with the voiceover, but in the usual expressions and the movements and everything else. I mean, that’s really your job.
Don Bluth
That’s right. And you have to do it because at the end of the day, someone’s going to go into the theater, they’re gonna sit there for an hour and a half, maybe two hours animation, probably not. You’re gonna sit there, they’re gonna, they’re gonna watch this and then they’re gonna leave the theater and what do they take with them? And if they really take nothing, and this is basically what I’ve had a hard time with, with some of the Disney Pictures because their corporate created. We call it the Disney machine machine. Okay, so but the people that I know that worked in that machine and who are really good artists and still have a heartfelt feeling for wanting to do it, they get caught in the machine, and the machine is dictating what they will create because it’s not about telling the story. It’s not about giving a performance. It’s about how much can we give to the stockholders so the orientation comes off of service to others to profit. You can’t ignore profit either. And things
Shane R. Monroe
have to stand away. So the bills have to be paid. But but you can’t go entirely over
Don Bluth
there. If you go entirely over there and it becomes the money machine, what will happen is, you start looking at the pictures, they all look like the last one. They all saying the same thing. And they all look extremely slick. And there’s no money in it. Manufactured
Shane R. Monroe
manufacturers good word. Yeah. I think that’s that’s one of the problems that we have with video games here on the show is that they follow that me too pattern religiously. And unfortunately, people buy him I mean, that people speak with their wallets, you know, everybody stopped buying the first person blast him up shooter game, that’s not making it, they’d have to move on somewhere else. But the the in discerning public doesn’t care enough, you know, to to basically speak to the wall and say, I’m tired of Quake, it’s over, you know, you guys have made quake for 17 years, now, we’re done. We want to move on to something else now. But they don’t. I mean, they just continue to purchase basically the same game with the new skin over and over again, the same Disney machine sort of thing. There was a time with watching Disney movies that I could say, Okay, where are the two eyes, crackers, and gotta be coming along somewhere else that they’re there? You know, I mean, there was, you know, I mean, there’s a formula to it. It’s like, you know, what, there’s got what, we’re about 15 minutes. So there’s got to be a song coming at that. There it is. And it’s the same sort of thing with video games to me.
Don Bluth
Well, it’s, it’s kind of when you’re making those movies, you say it is the formula, you say you start plugging in the pieces to the formula as you make it, but you’re not investing your thought process, know your creative muscles. In creating it, that’s what happens. But it’s also the safe road. Because that way, say, hey, what work then should have worked now. So everybody has got an excuse. And the stockholders and the people that are hidden, that are leading the company cannot be indicted. For what they did. So it’s a safe road. And that’s why it gets there. Right? Yeah, unfortunately. So but, but I don’t think all is lost. I think it’s cyclical. And usually what happens is they make enough mistakes to where they fall on their face. And then someone says, Hey, we’re not doing it. Right. You know, we’re gonna have to think now. So they get into meetings and start thinking of how they can make it really work. And that’s the most exciting part is when you’re in the downside, and you have to think to make yourself go up again,
Shane R. Monroe
into the actually tap the creative people that point time, or do they?
Don Bluth
I think they do. I think I think they do tap them. The only thing I know about the suits is they never totally relinquish control. Because as long as they have controls, they dare not let that money and how it spent go anywhere but their own hands. So they control it. But if they give the latitude that and I think when we made American tale, Steven Spielberg was really generous, really, really generous.
Shane R. Monroe
It’s interesting, he does strike me as that kind of a generous guy.
Don Bluth
Well, he was one of his off days. But he, what he did is he gave us space, he gave us the money, he gave us the idea. And he says just make me something that I didn’t really have. Let me watch. Let me watch even if because I want to be part of this experience. Because he liked animation so much. And so as we went into that, it was just it was really a great experience. You know, and he was there. He was helpful. He was kind he was, you know, all those things. Then it was different on Land Before Time, because now he knew something not a lot, but he knew enough, you know, to stir it. And he brought in George and so there were two moguls in there. And it got harder and harder. Then he went away to Japan to make I think in partisan. And so he wasn’t accessible to us. We couldn’t get storyboards. Okay, but we were still spinning the budget money, right without inventory. So it got harder, and it was different there. And I remember Land Before Time, you just said all I know is it’s about five dinosaurs, you know, we get five eggs, they get hatched. And these five dinosaurs get separated their parents and somehow they get reunited with their parents. That’s the story. So then we started in with a couple of writers, you know, trying to figure out well, how do you flesh that out? You know, put a little detail.
Shane R. Monroe
So that a 15 minute animated feature?
Don Bluth
And you have to go back to character again? Sure enough to say who his little foot somebody you have to care about? Yeah, and why do I care about him? And who is Deki? And who is Sarah? And all these little characters? Why do I like them? And how are they different from each other? And when you bring them together? How do their personalities, clash? Conflict. So that’s what made it fun to watch. But if you go plot, just simply plot, which is what happens with the sequels. You get into the plot after a while you say, I don’t really care what the plot is because I don’t I mean, stopping Victarion for the characters.
Shane R. Monroe
Sure. And that’s maybe that’s why sequels just don’t typically work because you’ve gone through the character build. Let’s say the first one was really good. Yeah. And you built the characters you care about them now it’s like, I’ll continue to care about them, but you’re not giving me any more, you’re just throwing him in another, like in a serial situation, you know the characters, but for now, let’s get some stories.
Don Bluth
But you have to, you have to have surprises, you have to have little moments that delight you in this sneak up on you, and you didn’t know they were coming. You have to have moments when there’s these little epiphany moments when you go, wow, I didn’t realize that. That’s really cool to say that, you know, so there’s, there’s all these little adventurous moments that happen in a good film or a good play. In sequels? Your anxiety seems to be is how can I repeat this? Right? So where’s the surprise?
Shane R. Monroe
It’s true. Right? And maybe that’s maybe that’s why video games, in my opinion, anyway, have kind of taken a downward spiral. Because in let’s say, Dragon’s Lair, you know, you had a quest, you had something to do. There was a, you know, you went through this, and you did this, you defeated this and you win. With modern games are there’s no beginning, middle and end anymore. There’s really no story. It’s throw everybody in a room and see who dies first. I mean, I’ll be honest with you, I mean, that’s whatever, if you look at it, the top selling games, that’s what the top selling games do. You get everybody in a room, and you blow each other up. And somehow that continues to sell, I haven’t figured it out. There is no solo experience really anymore. They take all their time and money and effort and put it into the visuals.
Don Bluth
But even in let me bring another example. Even in the movie Highlander. It’s basically about that there can be only one, the only one alright, let’s kill all the rest off. But still, at the same time, the Highlander the main guy, I’d got to like him right in the beginning. And because I liked him, I could follow that other stuff, which is let’s get rid of all the rest of the guys, you know, let’s see the effects when he finally does be had somebody you know, we can see all that. But then every sequel after that, that wasn’t there.
Shane R. Monroe
It’s true. They kind of Yeah, they kind of, because I already
Don Bluth
knew the guy. And they didn’t tell me too much more about him. You know, it was just how many more out there that I have to kill. So became plot oriented instead of character.
Shane R. Monroe
They occasionally like towards the end of the series. So I don’t even know if it’s really the end yet. I think they’re making another one. But they started trying to throw like flashbacks to earlier times when he was dealing with those heavy emotional times. And I realized that he wasn’t ever going to be able to die with this.
Don Bluth
That’s why like that, I guess what I mean, the wonderful part I liked in the first one is where he’s put down under the water. You know, Sean Connery, you know, throws him in the lake, and he sinks to the bottom and he’s just, he just sits there and he’s not dying. So you can’t die. Yeah. And it’s a great discovery for him. Yeah. And for us.
Shane R. Monroe
Yeah, absolutely. But
Don Bluth
now, I don’t know how you do SQL. I’ve that was one of my big worries with this Dragon’s Lair 3d Is that how do we SQL this. So it remains to be seen if the gameplay is really fun enough. Maybe there’ll be forgiving to the fact we haven’t done a whole lot more development on jerks character. The movie that we’re making, I think we’ll write I think the movie it goes prequel, which I think is more interesting. I’d rather go beforehand, because you can reveal things that you haven’t revealed. And I think that will be more revealing. Then we get into the more who is Daphne has in the game. She’s just simply an airhead girl. Right? And definitely really isn’t just that. So we’ll get into more of that, I think for the film. So the film, I have hoped that that could be a lot of fun.
Shane R. Monroe
Absolutely. And I just being as I just read the script, I know a little bit more than I can’t tell right now. But have you guys made? I mean, where are you at in the production process? You’re in pre production,
Don Bluth
pre production, and I’m doing a lot of sets and boarding right now.
Shane R. Monroe
Oh, okay. So you’ve chosen to go animated with the film?
Don Bluth
Yeah, I think I think it has to go to the animation. I think there’s a lot of there’s a lot of people that are saying, Oh, no, no, no, the fashion is 3d, you have to go there. And I said, well, but you won’t connect with the audience that you know, wants to see this.
Shane R. Monroe
That’s exactly right. That was one of the big worries that were tittering around my circles was if they make a movie, are they going to mess it up? And to mess up would be a live action or to go 3d? And nobody wanted to see that?
Don Bluth
No. And I think there’s enough people over in the 3d arena, you know, they don’t need any more over there. No, in fact, the 2d arena, a lot of Envision running like rats from a sinking ship. So I’m gonna stay over there, because I think there’s still value there. There’s still little juice in it.
Shane R. Monroe
I would hope I hope so. I’d hate to see it go all the way down the toy.
Don Bluth
Well, I was just watching the other day, I was watching some very old animation or the early Disney years. And looking at I thought my word, how innocent and how really exciting it was, and how fun it is to look at, you know, and how they’ve orchestrated the colors and how they’ve done. The movement itself has a rhythm to it. And it has a very lyrical, almost musical quality to it because of its rhythm. And all of that somehow gets lost in this whole plot world because you create a 3d character and then you say we have to move from A to B, and he’s going to walk like this to a to b. Now I’ve done it. But you miss somehow along the way you missed the music.
Shane R. Monroe
Well, there’s all there’s, to me personally, you know, you can always tell the difference when you look at something that’s pre jammed in something that somebody drops by hand. Yeah, I mean, there’s, it’s your eye, you can’t fool the eye, there’s not enough eye, not the word mistakes. But there’s not a variance when you take a computer object and move it from here to here, perfectly developed. And when you see somebody draw from him from here to here, there’s a variance that makes it feel real. It’s a different world. It’s a very different world.
Don Bluth
Yeah, we have the world that we live in which we all know what it looks like. We have the computer world, we all know what that looks like. But that does not look like the 2d hand drawn animation world is not that’s a different world. And those are like different brushes on a canvas. And I think just because the fashion says 3d Right now, it does not mean that the 2d brush is obsolete or it’s a dinosaur. I mean, that’s not that’s not true.
Shane R. Monroe
I think there’s I think there’s more creativity and more. I think there’s more payback, so to speak in
Don Bluth
what it does do, what 3d does do is that accommodates the market driven product gets it does. And so by accommodating those fellows who are saying faster, faster, faster, give it to me now, they’re only going to say that louder, right? So even somewhere, the 3d people are gonna say, Well, you know, it takes time to do this. So there’s no magic in this somewhere, you have to say anything that’s worth having, it’s taking a little time to do it, right.
Shane R. Monroe
I’m a big believer in that, you know, and that’s why, you know, people say on Dragon’s Den or 3d, it’s like four years old, it’s been forever. And it’s like, well, let them do it. Right. Stop putting the pressure cooker on them. You know, I’d much rather see I’d much rather wait and see it done right then to you know,
Don Bluth
have it shuttled, they have tried really hard to do that. And they have been working for the entire four years, because I’ve been here watching. And they have a pretty big staff. Because something like 2526 people over there that they’ve kept employed for the four years working on this thing, and there’s a lot of problems with it, that they’ve had to solve, which I think they’ve done quite well. And I was amazed when I saw the final product because I keep seeing it. You know, it’s just regular old there’s a game where’s the personality? Where’s the character where all that and when I saw that the E three show played on the Xbox. I went Wow. Like to make a movie that’s that beautiful.
Shane R. Monroe
That’s interesting. So with with regards to Dragon’s Lair 3d, what sort of, because I saw the trailer, I saw the new trailer that has been shipping around it and no one else has seen it. I’m not sure. How do you plan on getting or how do they plan on getting I tried not to group you guys together? Cuz I know you’re kind of two different teams here. But how are they going to get that game out to people?
Don Bluth
There’s they’ve they’ve hired a very capable publicist. And there’s been I’ve done lots of interviews on it so scary. So I know they’re in so as Rick Dyer so there’s been a lot of interviewing going on, we’ve gone to all of the game shows themselves. We’ve talked to all of the store managers. I mean, I’ve sat through hours and hours of the store manager things you know, where they prayed by in groups for a whole day and you just talk to him shake their hands and sign autographs and talk to him about the game. And the response is very, very positive. So we’ve done that there will probably be TV commercials that will that that trade or that you saw that’ll be aired on television, I’m pretty sure so they will begin that that blitz on TV they will probably get closer to Christmas because the stores are well aware of at the stores you know they’ve done some ordering and even the old game for some reason this is so weird to me. The the first game they just sent out they did a whole collection of of the three games together, which was Dragon’s Lair spacestation the second Dragon Slayer, they put them all together and they they sort of packaged this as a new version of it.
Shane R. Monroe
That got it they sent me a press copy. Well, they they just
Don Bluth
produced 5000 of those the other day and sent them out to the stores and within a week they were all gone. And this is the first game why are they just disappearing within a week? Just gone. So I couldn’t figure that out. Exactly. But it is stimulating evidently even the first game so that people are buying those so I don’t know what’s happening and it’s anyone’s guess like a movie you just don’t know until don’t happen to actually goes out. Yeah. But there is pretty good coverage on it. We just this morning I did an interview for the LA Times and they did pictures and everything. So supposedly come out in the calendar section this month. So the newspapers are picking it up. There’s the some of the interviews I spoke up. So I think it’ll get covered I think people will know it’s there. And then of course there’s that army or battalion of parents who were the original players. Absolutely. They are going to tell their children About. And that’s the whole.
Shane R. Monroe
I’ll be interesting to see how it all pans out this again, again, this is like one of those first things. No video game has survived 20 years come back again, reinvented the genre yet again. Because that’s really what we’re talking about is, is while the game the game plays is similar to other games, but they’ve taken and like you said they basically made it a movie quality game. It’ll be interesting to see if people care. Yeah, well, because that’s really the crux people have to care. Otherwise, you’re gonna look at the game and say that’s Tomb Raider, which is a game of the same type of genre there is. That’s Tomb Raider,
Don Bluth
right? Now, a movie is an interesting thing, because when a movie comes out, they know the opening night, whether the movie is gonna die or live. Yep. So that first night tells it now Dragon’s Lair, I think when it comes out, people will either like it and tell their friends. It’s really cool. Go get it? Or they’ll say don’t bother. Yeah, so it’ll die immediately if it’s no good.
Shane R. Monroe
and word of mouth is really bad now, because the internet gives everybody a voice. And people just love to use it.
Don Bluth
And they get on and they’ll jangle about this for hours, you know. So I don’t know what
Shane R. Monroe
the readers, the lip readers, the listeners of the show have sent in questions over time. Because basically, when I started the show, back in 98, there were two people that I had to meet an interview with the course of the show, one of them was you. And the other one was basically the person that made me excited about game programming. He basically single handedly created a series of video games that basically were so far ahead of their time that they inspired me. And that’s why I decided to make games myself and blah, blah, blah. So I got him originally. And now I’ve gotten to have you on the show. And, and well, you know, I just talked myself into a corner there because I had a great idea that I was going to shoot with with that
Don Bluth
your segue and into say, question, I
Shane R. Monroe
lost it. Oh, the questions that people have written in and asked over the years. And, and basically I said, you know, I put out, you know, sign saying, you know, if you know, Dom blows, and he’d be willing to interview, please write me and let me know. And I’ll try to connect with him. And we’ll try to have an interview. And people realize, hey, well, did you ever get a hold of him? So I got these questions. Wow. Okay. And it’s, um, people come up with a wireless stuff. But the one thing that keeps coming back over and over again, I promised all the listeners that I would definitely attack this one. Tell us everything you can about Sea Beast and let’s put it to bed. The best thing to ask Luke about.
Don Bluth
It’s a great title. I like Sea Beast. Right after we had made Dragon’s Lair, space and time warp. Gary said to me says you know what, we need to have a whole kind of parade of games that that we’re going to go into and make because we had high hopes that the games would go on none. And that was just prior to the arcade collapsing and falling apart. So I said, okay, but I don’t have any stories made up for these things. So I said, what I’m going to do is I’m going to just make up some what I think are some cool titles. And we’ll just put those out there. And we’ll put them in a brochure. And we’ll say we have a thing called Sea Beast that we’re making, we have a whole bunch of other so we made up these titles. And there was no game ever created. Well, when the thing when the thing collapsed, when the arcade collapse and everything. And we went on actually to make another picture. We didn’t ever do it, we went on to make was American tale. Because right after we made Secret of NIMH, we did the games. And then when the game business sort of fell apart, we got into that was when Steven called us and said, hey, well, why don’t we make this movie, I’ve got an idea. And we went over and talked to him about it. And we went almost immediately into an American tale. And so we kind of just put all the games aside and said, Well, that was a moment in our history, we’ll probably never go back there again. So, so we went in there, and you know, 11 pictures later, we’re still in the movie business. And then Rick came and said, Let’s make another Dragon’s Lair. But Sea Beast, I Oh, and the only thing I had my head when I made up the title was I really like a lot of those old movies that I used to sit through and people go down in the ocean. And they were all in this deep sea diving gear and the squids down there. And I imagined that there was something down there. And I used to call it the Kraken. Right? And there was a beast down there that allowed no man to enter that realm, you know, and someone had to get down there for a reason. But that’s as far as I forgot with it. There is no game written on that yet. If everyone sees the title, just help yourself.
Shane R. Monroe
Because they have a there’s a piece of production art that’s out there. Yep. I’m sure you know exactly what I’m talking about. When there’s one that’s got like this big question mark by it. Was this ever a game? Did it happen? What are the details? Anybody know? Right? Isn’t I mean, there’s sites everywhere. If you go search for Sea Beast on the web, there are sites that have that that one picture and then everyone’s borrowed from everybody else. And it says what do you know about this game?
Don Bluth
In conceiving all of these different future products? We had to say yes, we’ve got these in development. Yes, we’re working on this. So we made the art we made everything. And all I did was Tell the artists what I just told you. We know it’s about the ocean and down in the ocean. There’s a horrible thing at Kraken are a beast of some kind. And no and no one will allow, you know, man to go down into that ocean. And it became funny. That’s like a forbidden Castle like,
Shane R. Monroe
sure it’s the same idea. So but that’s all I know about Sea Beast. That’s so funny. That’s like I said, that’s like the number one question of all time is tell us about CBS phone. It’s so funny. It’s weird when people write in about. That’s crazy. Yeah, gotta get you wrapped up, I guess here. See? I got totally sidetracked I thought about the CBS thing. The other question that people have asked has was, were you involved in The Black Cauldron? And I you told me that answer offline. But maybe you’d like to contribute online to the
Don Bluth
you know what I’m peripherally I was obvious in a lot of Black Cauldron meetings before anybody animated anything in which we talk story talked personality, you know, who was to ran and who was online, we and what were these kids to each other? And what’s their backstory? And why are they so stressed out and you know, determined to do this or that or whatever. And I was in a lot of those meetings. And it was a very young period of my career. And so I mainly listened to Willie rather men and Frank Thomas, and Ollie Johnson and Ken Anderson, and all these guys talk about where they think their story should go. And I had ideas, but I was never brave enough to speak up too much. I remember in one meeting, I said something to the effect. And they were all in this meeting all these big, big con shows. And I, somebody said, to say, well, what is the story about? He says, Well, you know, it’s about his survival. And I said, Well, survival doesn’t seem like much of a motive. I actually spoke and said that. And Ken Anderson spoken up immediately. Just pick me up on that. He says, Well, you haven’t been employed here at Disney’s very long. So I Shay, I understand what you mean. He says survivals a very big
Shane R. Monroe
money. Yeah, that’s funny. But one more thing, and I’ll wrap things up. A lot of people don’t realize that you did the animation for Xanadu the films, and most people are very eager to forget, because a lot of people didn’t care for the movie. I liked it as a musical. I mean, I like the musical numbers and the sequences. But that video, the three minute 12 second animation was was like reference quality for animation. People don’t I mean, people overshadowed the movie with him, it was a sucky movie, it was a ripoff of down to earth, blah, blah, blah. And they go in and look at that animation. I mean, this is
Don Bluth
an interesting time, we actually stopped production on Secret of NIMH to do that. Interesting. And it was for I think, Joel, Sylar was the guy who was producing or executive producer. And anyway, we, we went in and did it and a lot of our crew, we only had about 12 of us that were working right then on secret nem. And so a lot of the crew stayed on, stayed on nem. And I said, Well, I’ll just go over there, that extra money could really help us out. So I’ll just go over there. And I’ll animate the whole thing. I can do that very quickly, because the animation is kind of fast for me, I don’t know. So I knew exactly what those characters were about. So I didn’t have a problem there. And I knew if I tried to manage it through some kind of other animators could slow it way down. So I animated all of it. And the interesting experiences in that whole thing was, I remember once we got it all done in the shot, and it was in the movie, we went over to the I think it’s called Cinerama dome over there on Sunset Boulevard in Hollywood. That’s where I saw it on the screen. I remember going in there and sitting down for they’re going to Shosanna for the first time and I sat there and this is the only time this has ever happened to me. I knew it would appear in the movie as we got closer and closer to it. I got so such butterflies in my stomach and my heart started just pound because I thought you know what, this crowd is not going to like that they’re going to take it as so juvenile and so stupid. And I thought it’d be laughed out of the theater. And so when it happened was about to happen my heart was just pounding in my chest and I thought oh no, this is it, you know I’m going to be completely demoralized here at least ridiculed you know, and, and it didn’t happen at all. But that’s the only time that I remember getting really butterflies and really really a heart pound before something identified and shown and all the rest of the movies that I’ve ever made that never happened, but that one and
Shane R. Monroe
but you hate Did you did you animate to the song or do they have the song later
Don Bluth
night to the song?
Shane R. Monroe
I bet you hate that song, man. I bet you had
Don Bluth
it wasn’t exactly my cup of tea, you know, as far as music goes, but but it was it was different. And I enjoyed music enough to be able to you know, hit the beats and everything. Well, yeah, it all turned out. But it was a real strange and different experience. And I liked it a lot. And after it was all said and done everything. I’m always amazed when people say they like that, you know, because at first somehow the cynicism that exists, how can they just
Shane R. Monroe
bought into it. I bought it. It’s, I mean, it’s a beautiful piece of work. I mean, I think it’s some of the best work I’ve ever seen from you. And I mean, it looked like you really, you know, blood, sweat and tears.
Don Bluth
I was liking it. I had enjoyed just animes that time, right? I love it. Everyone’s watched it even in all the pictures I made even I’m directing, you’re not animating. But I’ve always tried to do at least 30 seconds of animation and every picture so I can say
Shane R. Monroe
parts mine. Yeah, I’m gonna have to go back now and see, which if I can pick out your pieces at the
Don Bluth
trademark and I people can tell what I do. Then the secret name is a little moment where the birds are in a little bath, a little bird bath. They’re all bathing in there and not in the in American term. That’s towards the end of the movie. But it’s the one scene that nobody wanted. And it was just three little birds who took a bath and a bath. I said, Okay, fine. I’ll animate that.
Shane R. Monroe
That’s great. Well, thank you don. We are here with Don Bluth at Don Bluth films in Phoenix, Arizona. And we appreciate you coming in or me letting me come into you this time and talk to you about your new game. Dragons are 3d. That’s
Don Bluth
great. And you know, and so all of your clientele out there and all your listeners. It’s been a pleasure to sit here and talk to you. And maybe we can do it again sometime.
Shane R. Monroe
I hope so. Thanks so much. You’re welcome.